- By Steve Rosenberg
- Editor of Russia in Minsk
image source, Getty Images
Alexander Lukashenko quarreled with foreign journalists during the four-hour “conversation” on Thursday
It was Alexander Lukashenko who brokered the deal to end the Wagner rebellion. So we were told.
So, if there is anyone who can shed light on these dark stories, it is most certainly the leader of Belarus. Or so we hope.
We are part of a small group of journalists who were invited to the Palace of Independence in Minsk to “have a conversation” with Mr. Lukashenko.
Rather than making a spotlight, though, it muddies the waters on Russia’s recent uprising.
According to the agreement between the Wagner Group and the Kremlin, Wagner’s chief Yevgeny Prigozhin was supposed to move to Belarus with some of his fighters.
This did not happen. Not now anyway.
“As of this morning, the Wagner fighters, very serious, are still in the camps to which they withdrew after Bakhmut,” says Mr. Lukashenko.
“As for Yevgeny Prigozhin, he’s in St. Petersburg. Or maybe he flew to Moscow this morning. Or maybe somewhere else. But he’s not in Belarus.”
I asked Alexander Lukashenko if this meant the deal was off.
denies it. It’s like there are conversations going on behind the scenes that we won’t tell about.
image source, Presidential pool of Belarus
Steve Rosenberg (left of the door) was among a group of journalists who spent four hours with Mr. Lukashenko
When it came to discussing the rebellion, Moscow and Minsk were not quite a match.
Russian state television announced last weekend that President Vladimir Putin had emerged from these dramatic events as a hero.
“I think no one came out of this situation as a hero,” Lukashenko told me.
“Not Prigozhin, not Putin, not Lukashenko. There were no heroes. The lesson from this? If we create armed groups like this, we need to watch them and pay serious attention to them.”
image source, Getty Images
Once a thorn in his side, Alexander Lukashenko has become increasingly dependent on Vladimir Putin after the disputed 2020 election.
Lukashenko said recently: “God forbid I have to make a decision to use it, but I will not hesitate to use it.”
I remind him of those comments.
Lukashenko replies: “Joe Biden can say the same, and Prime Minister Sunak.” “And my friend Xi Jinping and my older brother, President Putin.”
“But these aren’t your weapons we’re talking about,” I pointed out. They are Russian. It’s not your decision to make.
The Belarusian leader replies, “In Ukraine a whole army is fighting with foreign weapons, isn’t it?” “NATO’s weapons. Because they’re out of weapons. Why can’t I fight with someone else’s weapons?”
But I replied that we are talking about nuclear weapons, not pistols.
“Nuclear, yes. They are weapons, too. Tactical nuclear weapons.”
As you can probably guess from his nuclear comments, Alexander Lukashenko is a controversial figure.
The United States, the European Union and the United Kingdom do not recognize him as the legitimate president of Belarus. In 2020, Belarusians took to the streets to accuse him of stealing the country’s presidential election. The protests were brutally suppressed.
I recall the case of imprisoned opposition activist Maria Kolesnikova.
“For months, her relatives and lawyers have been prevented from visiting her in prison. Why?” I ask.
“I don’t know anything about this,” he claims.
“The last time I interviewed you in the fall of 2021, there were 873 political prisoners in Belarus,” I recall Mr. Lukashenko. “Now there are 1,500.”
He replies, “There is no article in our criminal law related to political crimes.”
It was pointed out that the absence of an article on political crimes did not mean that there were no political prisoners.
He insists, “Prisoners cannot be political prisoners, if there is no article.” “How could they be?”
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